The Sound of Colour
Join Colour Designer Sarah Gottlieb as she talks to cultural and creative leaders about the most influential colours in their lives and work. Through insightful conversations you hear about the meaning and psychology of colours through the guest's personal story about their own creative work.
In each episode, we ask guests to talk about their passion for colour and where it comes from. We review a significant piece of our guest’s work where colour has played an important role, and also where they find inspiration – ending each episode with the musical element "the sound of a colour”.
Be prepared for laughter, tears and everything in between.
The Sound of Colour
John Booth - The Playful Power of Colour in Life and Design
The Playful Power of Colour in Life and Design
In this episode of "The Sound of Colour”, I chat to artist and designer John Booth. His work is permeated by a vivid colour palette with juxtaposition of tones and pigments, it is at the core of everything that he does. John Booth has a sense of childlike joy in looking and creating, and you can really feel this coming through in his work. He has worked with big brands such as Selfridges, Fendi, Hem and Paul Smith. And his iconic ceramic piece ‘The Head Vase’ broke the internet and started an instagram frenzy.
Artist and designer John Booth joins me in this episode to paint a vibrant picture of how colour has shaped his life and career. Growing up in the 80s with a twin sister and non-gender-conforming fashion choices, John developed a keen eye for bold and creative color combinations. Our conversation gleams with colourful anecdotes of his childhood memories and the evolution of his unique collage technique, offering you a glimpse into how personal history and a playful perspective can create a world of artistic joy.
We discuss the role of social media in shaping design trends and the creative process behind collaborating on colour palettes. We touch on the balance between popular aesthetics and personal taste, as John and I talk about how you design with colours for longevity. And we get to grips with his design process, as we delve into his design project, The Bronto Collection, a tableware collection for Swedish Hem.
Wrapping up this episode with the musical experiment “The Sound of a Colour”, this time composed by musician and sound designer Arbi Alexander that creates the sound of Shiny Yellow.
I could have chatted for hours with John, he is such a warm and generous person, the conversation was witty and insightful and I very much hope you will enjoy it too. Happy listening.
For more color inspiration follow @sarah__gottlieb and this episode's guest @john_booth and the episode's audio oracle www.arbialexander.com
This episode is sponsored by Montana Furniture.
SHOWNOTES
The Bronto collection by Supergroup from Hem.
Check out the magical stationary shop ‘Choosing and Keeping’ in London.
Supergroup, John's collaborative project with Ian McIntyre.
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The Sound of Colour is produced by Sarah Gottlieb, with music by Matt Motte.
The host
Sarah Gottlieb is a Danish Colour Designer and Art Director. She runs her own studio, where she has specialised in Colour Design, Visual Concepts and Spatial Design. Sarah strives to move the boundaries of what colour can do and her goal is to encourage people to embrace more colourful worlds.
To hear more from me
For images and information from each episode go to the Podcast website
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Hi, my name is Sarah Godlip and you are listening to the Sound of Color. I'm a designer and I work with colors in spatial design, product design and branding. In this podcast, you will meet a series of influential guests in the field of design and architecture, who will all share their personal stories and expert knowledge on and about colors. Together, we will delve into the magic of colour and its significance in the world of design.
John Booth:It's almost like battling your inner teenager, like you know when you want to be alternative or other. And actually, who says that something more widely used or appreciated can't be still nice? Because it definitely can.
Sarah Gottlieb:The Sound of Colour is brought to you in collaboration with Montana Furniture. I'm very excited about my podcast sponsor because Montana Furniture is a part of creating more playful spaces by bringing colors and high quality furniture into private homes, offices, universities, boardrooms, restaurants, lobbies and concert halls. So, as you can hear, they are just as big color nerds as me. Hi, john.
Sarah Gottlieb:Hi the guest in this episode is John Booth. We're here in your studio in London, under the arches, with some trains above. Yeah, now the train is coming, so let's see if it's gonna be. Okay, I might? I might just pause my question a bit.
Sarah Gottlieb:John Booth is an artist, illustrator, ceramicist and textile designer based in London yes, all of the above. He has created an unlabored collage technique combined with painted and drawn elements. It brings together rough and ready textures with bright colors and leaves you with a joyous feeling. A vivid color palette with juxtapositions of tones and pigments is at the core of everything that he does.
Sarah Gottlieb:John Booth has a sense of childlike joy in looking and creating, and you can really see this coming through in his work. He has worked with clients such as Selfridges, fendi, hem and Paul Smith, and his iconic ceramic piece, the Head Vase, broke the internet and started an Instagram frenzy. In this episode, john and I talk about how you design with colors for longevity, how growing up with a twin sister has given him the love of putting colors together, and how running two practices is an exercise in juggling design styles and collaborating with another creative. This, and much more, is what you will hear about in this episode of the sound of color. But first of all I asked john where his love of colors originally comes from so I get asked that quite a lot and it sort of always reminds me.
John Booth:it takes me back to childhood because that's kind of definitely where it was, where it started and always was really it's sort of. For me primarily it was more about sort of it was always to do with clothing. I negated colours to sort of how you engage with what you wear and I've got a twin sister. Oh, really. Yeah, so we were put in the same clothes.
Sarah Gottlieb:Oh, like twinning.
John Booth:Yeah, like all people would buy two of something, but they would buy, they would try and make it sort of not sort of sticking to gender rules. So I didn't get bought a blue thing and she got bought a pink thing, we got bought a yellow thing and a green thing, so it was like interchangeable. So in fact, yeah, very clear memories of being put in the same clothes but feeling okay about it until we got to a certain age where I was like, actually I don't know if we do want to dress the same, but it was those. It was sort of it was always to do with double colours. So it was because there's two of us, two of these similar garments that were like, or like a lot of red across. Yeah, red, green, yellow, kind of the colour palette that I use a lot of now yeah that was a really early memory for me, but also also, I guess, as well.
John Booth:Being a kid in the 80s, I was less into technology and more about drawing. I really loved having drawing materials for getting given as gifts so felt-tip pens and paper and actually I was encouraged from quite a young age to be drawing because, my sister.
Sarah Gottlieb:She was sportier than me and actually quintessentially more of a tomboy, I guess yeah so she would be out and about playing and I'd be at home colouring in oh right, so like opposite, like gender roles, if you kind of go from the tradition.
John Booth:Yeah, totally, yeah, yeah it's so true, and that was so. That's what it's almost quite contentious because I do think about. Because back, you know, growing up in the 80s, I was almost like shamed for not being quintessentially masculine, being at home doing crafts with paper or doing drawing, or doing decoupage, cutting out it's so funny, um, and essentially I still do that now, but in my own way yeah, holding up the collage yeah, holding up, like you know, making my own coloured textures and making images out of them.
Sarah Gottlieb:I also just love the word decoupage, because basically it's just a very fancy word for collage.
John Booth:I wonder what I'm I was trying to. I was thinking about it the other day because I was like, what makes it decoupage? Is it almost something where it's more like a cutting up photographic images that you, I don't know? I need to re-look at the definition. So, yeah, that it came from always being interested in clothing and enjoying wearing clothing, essentially enjoying sharing clothing with my sister because that felt fun, and then, and also a love of materials, art materials and being bought them and really coveting them. So as a teenager, one of my friends reminded me of how stingy I was, that I wouldn't share my felt tips and he was like, do you remember how much of a I can't say the word, but he was? He was annoyed that I wouldn't share my felt tips oh, you're gonna say dick.
Sarah Gottlieb:You can say dick on this.
John Booth:Yeah, okay, he was like you were a dickhead when you were younger because you wouldn't share your felt tips. So I was like okay, um, and I still don't.
John Booth:Ideally I'd not to, because I think I really do value my materials, even though it looks messy, everything's got its own place. So I still, even in fully in adulthood, I very much cover nice stationery and I still look after it. So for me that's another part of Christmas, but now I just buy myself them. Or I buy really beautiful Japanese felt-tip pens from Choose and Keeping oh nice. So yeah, for anybody in London, go there.
Sarah Gottlieb:I have been to Choosing and Keeping and it's an absolutely fantastic place. I love it, just like I love John Booth's playful way of working with colours, but how did he get to where he is today?
John Booth:I've almost got the lucky position where I can almost gloss over the harder years at this point and be like, oh, it was just like an ongoing transition. But there's definitely years when it was tough, like when you graduated from fashion school. That was very tough because I guess the marker of success would have been getting a glamorous job in a design house. But that didn't happen for me straight away. But I went. It was just always making sure that doing creative stuff. I also started teaching at St Martin's pretty soon after graduating, which was really nice. So teaching was one way of also keeping creative but also earning money to live off.
John Booth:So that was really good, but even I remember graduating.
Sarah Gottlieb:Earning money is quite a nice thing in the world of today.
John Booth:Yeah, it gets more and more essential. I even did I did a small range of these key rings that I was making out of cut latex at the time, like multicoloured tassel key rings, and I was selling those in Selfridges. So just little things like that that I've always, but that's almost indicative of how I work. I knew I never wanted to design full fashion collections, but almost like choosing a material and then having that as a singular project and then thinking right, okay, but then having multiple ones at the same time. So, as well as making, for example, making small rubber key rings for salvages, also teaching and also designing other things or trying to get freelance work.
Sarah Gottlieb:And how would that like the key rings. Would that be like? Oh, you came up with the material, you came up with the idea of the key ring and did you then approach Selfridges to sell them? Or how did how somebody was retailing.
John Booth:I can't remember who I was selling them through, but they it was sold through somebody that had a concession in Selfridges, so it was, and they'd seen them and we really liked them. So then they ordered a whole load of them, but it was amazing to have them in there, but even then that was almost enough.
Sarah Gottlieb:Rather than, like I said, rather than designing a whole collection of something, just having these, I was creatively kind of satisfied by having this range of these items in a place that people could buy them and that was almost enough and, like I said, that's become a blueprint for how I like working yeah, I'm thinking like that, you know, also because you see it seems like you work across like a diverse, like vast diversity of like disciplines and like products.
John Booth:Yeah, definitely so. There's enjoyment in sort of navigating a new medium and then also figuring it out, and then hopefully in a few years further into it, becoming not mastering it but becoming more proficient in that, and then I find satisfaction in that but I also want to just this is going to be broad, but like because I've kind of feel like from an outside perspective, that you have like your own personal color range true, there is, let's be honest, yeah or like would you?
Sarah Gottlieb:what is that? An? Do you get offended when I say that?
John Booth:absolutely not, no, because, but. But I take that lightly and I also agree with it very much. But I even point it out. It's really funny because for a project recently I had, I got to choose a lot of colours from a sort of swatch book and then I thought it was being really like. I was like really pushing the boat out with my colour choices and then when the person I was working with saw the colours were like, oh, wow, that's a, that's a very you colour scheme. And I was like, wow, okay, it is. Even if I think I'm branching out, I'm probably not, I want to, because you just go back. It's like I also joke with people, like you know when people will put on Instagram or what colour should I paint my wall, and there's five swatches of beige.
John Booth:I'm like well, that's not a colour, is it so, when I'm always like there's no colour there. So for me, I think I see colours quite like. They have to be quite definite, and I'm not discrediting it's a bit like felt tips yeah, precisely, you have to be able to see them.
John Booth:But, um, it's, it's funny, but I it's always done with lightness, I'm not like, I'm not prejudiced against beiges or neutral colours, but I just can't imagine using them. So when people and I will joke with people, when people I share a studio with other people and if they're quite subtle or sophisticated with use of colour, there's often a joke that people would be like oh, you're not going to understand that, it's too sophisticated.
Sarah Gottlieb:And I quite like it.
John Booth:I think it's good.
Sarah Gottlieb:I think that the conversation about colours and the use of them and if colorfulness is sophisticated or not, is very interesting and we will definitely have to return to this conversation. But first, of course, john Booth has to go through the recurring experiment in this podcast. So the experiment involves that you choose a color and then I get a musician to compose the sound of the color that you choose. So, john, what color do you? Musician to compose the sound of the colour that you choose. So, john, what colour do you want to hear the sound of?
John Booth:Yellow for definite.
Sarah Gottlieb:It would have to be.
John Booth:Because I'm just even my whole life. I'm surrounded by little spots of yellow or bigger amounts of yellow, but for me it would have to be quite a dark yellow. And a dark and a dark like when, if people know what a JCB truck is. So it's like an industrial yellow, like a sort of I would call it a digger like you know industrial yellow where it's been, like you know sort of a sprayed industrial yellow wow, nice maybe I guess the noise for that for me I almost do link that to machinery or mechanics or.
John Booth:But then also I really love seeing that because we try and recreate that with ceramics in my sort of drawings like yeah, we're looking on your decoupage my decoupage flower. We've got a darker yellow, but that in gloss. So for me it's almost like maybe I'm taking this too far, because you just said what color, but now I'm almost telling you what surface as well.
Sarah Gottlieb:But I think surface is a very important part yeah because a matte color and a shiny color is very different.
John Booth:Yeah, or a plush, because I always go back to fabrics, but one of my favorite fabrics is velvet and I love a color in velvet, like a dark yellow velvet would get me going, but I think like velvet I do often. Yeah, I think I think of colours in terms of not trying to religiously recreate it in different surfaces, but how a same colour could feel quite different, like what you just said, in different surfaces. Yeah, so a dark, because my sofa at home is dark yellow. I've painted a wall behind it in a yellow and it kind of clashes.
John Booth:But I'm really I love seeing them together yeah and then you know yellow ceramics or yellow objects that I have in the house and different, yeah, yellows in different surfaces. Get me going yeah even the wool on that rug. You can see there that that's my perfect yellow.
John Booth:So yeah, always going back to my fashion background, and I still love looking at fashion, even if I didn't necessarily design it, but I love fabrics or dresses. I remember I used to work for an amazing company in London, a fabric shop, and the owner of the shop she had a black and yellow Comme des Garcons dress, but in velvet wow, I was like it was just amazing this yellow and black velvet together.
John Booth:But she looked one, she looked incredible in it and two, just such a beautiful thing. So it's like, and it was from the 80s, so she collected fashion and a very cool person. So, yeah, it's almost like for me. I almost get quite nostalgic for a particular colour that I've seen in an example like that, like the color of Nikki's yellow velvet dress. I hope that's ingrained on my memory and whether I try and recreate it or just happily remember it, it's sort of that's where we're at with that.
Sarah Gottlieb:I think for me as well, like with this experiment, when I say also that colors, um touches or like has the ability to make strong sensory impressions on us. I think for me colors are a bit like you know, know, like smells. Yeah, as you just said, it just links to like memories.
John Booth:Massively, totally. But that's why even I love when fabrics have been washed out by the sun. So I used to have this amazing blue jacket and it got sun bleached and it went almost like indigo. It went like lilac colour.
Sarah Gottlieb:Wow.
John Booth:And that transition. I preferred it when it was the lilac color but I'm really into like, almost like, having a color then seeing how long it can last, because I've got clothing that I've had for years and I love seeing it fade or like get change, seeing how it changes even holy fabrics I quite like sometimes if it's got, if it's really worn and torn, I quite like it. But faded to me, sun bleached fabrics are also. They get me going in a way that I can't describe.
Sarah Gottlieb:So, just like in the last episode, the choice has fallen on yellow, but this time there's much vinaigrette or mustard over it. We have to get into something shiny and much more bright. It will be interesting to hear what our musician has to say about shiny yellow. Hi, arby, hi.
Sarah Gottlieb:In this episode, I have invited Arby Alexander, a musician and sound designer, to join me and my sound experiment. Arby Alexander has a wide-ranging practice that spans music and sound for videos, exhibitions and many other projects. Guided by intuition, he draws inspiration from his surroundings and collaborators, infusing each project with a unique sonic identity. He has created sound design and music for big global brands like Hay Gap and Essex.
Sarah Gottlieb:For Arby, sound is not just an element but a tool to evoke emotions, shape experiences and transform the ordinary into something memorable. And, last but not least, arby is, for sure, one of the most lovely and helpful people I have ever met, and today I got him to join in on this experiment to create the sound of a collar. I want to say thank you so much for being in on this experiment, the Sound of a Color. In this episode, I'm meeting with John Booth, and in his work he uses really bright colors, so when I asked him to pick a color that he wanted to hear the sound of. He picked a color that he really loves, which is drumroll yellow.
Arbi Alexander:Yeah.
Sarah Gottlieb:And, more specific, he picked shiny yellow because that was the thing we talked about. You know, like the kind of texture of the color also means something. More specifically, he described it as the yellow color on a JCB digger. I don't know if you know what it is but I know exactly what it is yeah, it's like this farmer.
Arbi Alexander:You know what the big machines they do out there.
Sarah Gottlieb:I love that you say as a farmer and you grew up in central Copenhagen.
Arbi Alexander:At least the last couple of years, I've been living outside of the city.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yeah, you're a farmer now in your adult life, so you know this shiny gloss industrial lacquer like kind of a little bit dark yellow and I just thought I would find a picture.
Arbi Alexander:Here we go. Yeah, exactly also. I saw some of his work on instagram so I I that yellow.
Sarah Gottlieb:I'm assuming that is kind of that yellow from his work he's also describing a little bit yeah, I would say he has, like he does definitely kind of have a color palette, and yellow is a big part of at least in the last where I just I was on his social media page you didn't scroll to the end.
Arbi Alexander:I didn't, I didn't do I didn't, I didn't see like the whole, uh, what's it called like a timeline of his work I think john's gonna, he's gonna be disappointed with you.
Sarah Gottlieb:I'm. I'm sorry, john, no, but okay. So this is the color. This, uh, shiny yellow, is the color that I would like you to interpret, and how do you think you will do it?
Arbi Alexander:When I kind of look at the color, there is something about that kind of like dense yellow. It's kind of buzzing in a way.
Sarah Gottlieb:Almost like a bee.
Arbi Alexander:Yeah, it's kind of like. For me, at least when I look at it, it it's dense in a way that it's a, it's a bit overwhelming true intense.
Sarah Gottlieb:It knows what it wants it's like a no bullshit color yeah, it is.
Arbi Alexander:There's also something like when the first light hits you.
Arbi Alexander:Yeah, that feeling like in the morning you mean or what, whatever, whenever you wake up, yeah, if it's in the morning and there's some, or if you walk outside in it, or it can be but there's something when light, early and late in the day, that energy you receive on your skin, when that first like cold of your skin gets taken away and the heat starts to grow, and I think that's what I get, because the color is also then. But again the, the curveball, is kind of that shiny thing which I'm not sure works with this, or maybe that's kind of that morning breeze that Throws the heat away again and then you get heated up. I don't know, but the shiny thing is the, mr Kerbal, it is so, somehow it is. I think at least it gives it another dimension To the experience.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yeah, I think that sounds very interesting. With all the stuff that you've said, I'm very intrigued to hear what you will come up with sound-wise for this shiny yellow. I'll get to work. Yeah, exactly, I'll leave you you have lots of work to do and I'll come back and talk to you about your version of Shine Yellow. While we leave our musician to compose, john and I can return to the conversation about why some people don't perceive colours as particularly sophisticated.
John Booth:Actually they can be very sophisticated in how you use them, because actually it's never just about like you said. It's quite an ongoing argument, slash theory, slash thing where it could be seen especially maybe a few years ago, it was seen as quite unfashionable to use bright colours or it could be seen as less academic or less sophisticated. But actually there's so many people that use colours really well and can use bright colours really in a really sophisticated way. So actually there's and actually there's lots of examples of people, that where people use bright colours, but it'll be quite jarring because I'm like that's not a good combination so it's a funny one, so actually is.
John Booth:It's almost quite old fashioned to think that colours aren't, can't be used in a sophisticated way. So and I'm, and it do come against it, but, like I said, it's usually in quite a lighthearted way or it's sort of where people are sort of saying that to be pseudo-intellectual, but actually it's not the case, but that's the thing actually.
Sarah Gottlieb:I think now you're touching exactly on those points, both saying like pseudo-intellectual.
John Booth:Yep.
Sarah Gottlieb:Like again saying that colours are like childlike.
John Booth:Yeah, colors are like Childlike.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yeah, or like the opposite of intellectual.
John Booth:Totally, it's so funny. Or like saying Anti-sophisticated.
Sarah Gottlieb:Kind of thing, and I'm just like I think actually Colors are very difficult. So I think, if anything, actually beige, you know, like Back to the five colors of beige.
John Booth:Yeah.
Sarah Gottlieb:It's like that's like the easy choice, totally.
John Booth:So that's not like Intellectual choice out totally so that's not like intellectual, not sophisticated, it's a, it's a cop-out yeah, but who?
Sarah Gottlieb:who?
John Booth:I feel like there's some sort of some part of history where someone was like really shit at color who was an important person, probably a man yeah and who was like, just decided that colors were like I guess I think I link it back to fashion as well, because I because that was my sort of I studied fashion and it's so you know I've heard so many voices and so many opinions and tutors and students all talking about colour and having this like tussle of people.
John Booth:You know, because we were I was in the print, the fashion print department, so people would be like, oh, he's a print clown. If you liked bright colour and you used bright colour, people were like he's a clown. But if you were like this sophisticated, cool, like minimal, like women's wear or men's wear student that just used black or a certain color of beige, they were cool and they were like but I still think I am, I even have friends that I that were like that and I'm like, oh, they are quite cool yeah so there is like but isn't that what's the sort of in-between point or what's the?
John Booth:there's got to be something else, just than that. But I do think things have changed. But I think it's almost quite dated. When people think like, what's super dated? Yeah, because to me it's almost links back to fashion.
Sarah Gottlieb:But I said, I think I say also today with Instagram, today I also feel like some of the very cool inferences. They're also very beige and neutral and black and white, where of course there's also big inferences that are super colorful. But it's kind of like that. Then they are also funny.
John Booth:Yeah, yeah, and.
Sarah Gottlieb:I'm like you can't be serious and sophisticated, apparently. And then also just love a wide range of colours True it's so tricky, isn't it?
John Booth:I guess it is, but I do think it comes back to almost people being discrediting something overtly colourful as being non-serious or playful or thoughtless in a way because I would say I would definitely use.
John Booth:I approach colour with quite a lot of thought, but still playfulness, but generally something that I would never put colours together if I didn't find them pleasing to look at. And it was even when I was, you know, designing things. But I've also worked at fashion houses where I've had to really compete or contest with senior staff members, voices being discrediting something that looks too frivolous or colourful. But then also the season after I'm speaking of a specific example where the season after, where the CEO of the company had to almost eat his words and was that actually that sold? This all sold really well, people loved it, it was really well received, thank you.
Sarah Gottlieb:So that's what well, at least you got like a thank you. That's a nice recognition of like, okay, you worked, you're right.
John Booth:Even though I. So that was quite vindicating, but it's interesting it's. But also just to flip this totally on its head and sound really contradictory. Yeah, back to influences, style and stuff. Stuff I'm seeing now there's almost like it could have almost gone the other way. Where I'm seeing people, there's certain almost like design cliches or objects that I'm seeing now that people are using. That I don't think is very thoughtful. But then people almost are now buying into that colourful aesthetic where you can buy the certain key pieces, put it together and then they've bought an aesthetic. But I can almost see how empty that is as well. So it's kind of like it's such a funny one, isn't it?
John Booth:yeah, it is funny how you can buy into the idea and especially like through now the world of social media and we're all getting kind of exposed to the same visual impression or like you know, because of like algorithm, it's like all of a sudden, it's just something kind of booms the social media world totally, it really does and it's, it can be, it's an amazing thing, but it's like any of us like we can use it in a way that's really good for us, but it can also be sort of detrimental, or also can be quite confusing or quite overwhelming, can't it? So, if you see, because sometimes it could almost be, it could put me off something I might like an object that I've wanted for ages, and then I see it on lots of different people's feeds and then you're like oh no, maybe I don't want that anymore, but that's, I don't know, that's a form of snobbery.
Sarah Gottlieb:I know I actually have this argument with my big sister and she's a bit like that. She's like, oh, she loves something, and then she's a bit like, oh, she might save. All of a sudden it becomes like a thing you know, people have it, and then they're like, oh, she's like I don't want it now.
John Booth:And I'm like really, but you, still like it, but she's like, and then we kind of we have this argument in my system, because I'm a bit like well, I know it as well, I can get that feeling as well, battling your inner sort of teenager, like you know, when you want to be so sort of alternative or other. And actually, who says that something more widely used or appreciated can't be still nice? Because it definitely can, yeah, but I guess there's just. It's just sort of figuring that out, isn't it?
Sarah Gottlieb:yeah, I very much agree with John that something very many have can be just as great as something very few have, and now we're going to talk about something that a lot of people have, that John has designed.
John Booth:The Bronto collection is something that me and my collaborative partner, ian McIntyre, have done for HEM, a Swedish company that sells beautiful homewares and design-related objects, and we've worked with them for a few years. We've done a few different projects with them and they're really brilliant, but we have done a collection of tableware which was launched a few years ago but I still feel, two years later, I still feel super excited about it. It still feels like in its early days. Still, we designed under our sort of collaborative name. Our company's name is called super group, so have a look at our other stuff, but this is our first sort of like functional way you're grabbing the I've got.
John Booth:Yeah, I've got yeah, I've got a mug here in my hand in a soft pink color. So the range we've got pink, yellow, green and a sort of really hot ready orange and we've also got a natural color in the range.
Sarah Gottlieb:Also there's a new color launching soon yeah, which is, which is brown, I think I'm allowed it's brown.
John Booth:It's going to be glossy brown. So amongst the other colors, we're really excited about having a brown, because I think that there's a lot we could say about that. But having the bright colors next to sort of much more dull color but shiny like a glossy brown for me, is another big thing that I really love.
Sarah Gottlieb:Because I also want to talk about how do you come up now? I don't know how it worked in the collaboration between the two of you, but how did you kind of put together the colour scale?
John Booth:There's five colours, you said yeah exactly five colours and with a sixth colour imminently. It was quite simple, but then we got to it in quite an interesting way, because actually originally the Bronto range was stripy. We've painted stripes.
Sarah Gottlieb:Wow.
John Booth:Because we developed the shapes in the studio and then from working models. The factory that reproduces them has worked them from our very accurate specifications. But the handmade objects were originally done in our studio in London and they were stripy, which I was super excited about, because now it's a one-colour object.
John Booth:Absolutely so. That's been a really interesting one for me colour-wise because I loved our stripy iteration of it. But I always had a feeling I knew that it was going to be factory reproduced. So I always had that sinking feeling that I'm like how's the factory going to do the stripes in a way that we like? I'm like how's the factory going to do the stripes in a way that we like? And actually that almost was a self-fulfilling sort of issue because the factory we were never quite happy, even though the factory was incredible. We never really liked the stripes and we opted for a block colour. But the block colour it was a really nice. It was also really healthy for me to relinquish this desire for everything to have because you know my work is really heavily hand patterned and textured and even if something's simple, it's got an element of hand and hand mark to it.
John Booth:Yeah so in within my own work that isn't super group it would be very rare for me to just do a block colour or even a singular colour on a singular object. Yeah so for me it was a healthy way to acknowledge that I'm. I need to let go of that need for more, maybe excessive decoration. So that's my midway. I love this collection so much because it it's like a breath of fresh air for me. I look at it and I'm like, oh, my god, I love the colour, but I love that it's one cup. You know, you've just got a solid pink or a solid yellow or a solid, really bright red bowl.
John Booth:But then for me it's always the Bronto collection is always about having the multiples and how the colours like having a few that you stack on top is just like. That's where I get my kick out of that. So because I've got the full set at home and I'm just sometimes my boyfriend will catch me I'll just rearrange the cups on the shelf just for a more pleasing arrangement. He's like you need to get a life. He's like you need to get a life. I know that life, I like that life, so these represent one that I love. Working with Ian McIntyre, I think he's amazing at what he does, incredible designer, but also we've learned from each other. He's much more proficient at being a really accurate and neat designer to the millimetre, whereas that's not me and he's learned to sort of maybe let go and enjoy decoration and enjoy something more traditionally frivolous. So that's why I love the supergroup stuff so much, because it embodies that lightness of touch with actually being really well-informed and really well-made.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yeah, but also really fun. I love the shape of the objects. The cop is kind of like it has a bit of a Donald Duck cop kind of Very cartoon. It's cartoon like and then again not, because also the lines are super straight and like very precise.
John Booth:It's very precise because it took Ian. You know, ian did all the heavy lifting with the sort of designing of the shape. I was always standing over his shoulder being like, oh, that's nice, but Ian's like the brain's behind that. And then he always laughs. He's like I just come over and be like, make it yellow. But I do, um, but it's just I keep pointing to them because we've got this set in the studio it's so nice.
John Booth:Um, it's like my. I really I'm so proud of it and I really want it to keep. I think we've designed something that has longevity and hopefully people will keep buying and collecting, and I love it.
Sarah Gottlieb:I love that we're but I think also that's why I thought it was an interesting project to talk about, because you just said yourself that it's like it's completely different from all the other work, but then again, somehow, because of the color choices, it kind of fits in.
John Booth:Yeah, exactly because it's, if you, because actually, as a contrast, we've got one of my more hand-painted ceramics next to it and the colours are there but, it's used so differently. But isn't it funny because on the one aspect of that head vase you've got about six or seven different colours, but then having the singular colour objects next to it, there's a link, but it's really quite different, which I'm into.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yeah, I think also what I like, like the idea that it's a block colour and like the singular object seems very simple but, in a positive, simple way.
John Booth:Yeah, true.
Sarah Gottlieb:But then it's about the combinations.
John Booth:Yeah, exactly Because it's a collection of multiple things. We would hope or assume people would end up hopefully buying a few of each sort of model. So for me it's a collection of multiple things. We would hope or assume people would end up hopefully buying a few of each sort of model.
Sarah Gottlieb:So it, for me, is it's less about the singular and more about the sort of small collection of them, because it's also maybe like the colors is kind of reflecting on the idea that it's like plates and balls and cups and then mixing across or quite modular in that way, or even just literally having the choice.
John Booth:If you've got a few different colours, it's really cute. I make the decision right. I'm going to have my toast on the green plate, but I'm going to purposely use a different coloured cup just because I want that one second freeze frame where I'm like, oh, they're cute together. And then I'll get on with my day. Not that I'm standing in my kitchen admiring my own work all the time, but it is. But I do. And then that's what's been really lovely about it, because just to have the choice to be like okay, I'm going to use the different colors, because purely for pleasure yeah because they're all functional.
John Booth:You know, I could put my coffee in any one of them, but I'll choose one that contrasts with my bowl of cereal to me, that's the whole essence of color.
Sarah Gottlieb:We could all just have white coffee cups, but there's a quiet joy in waking up and deciding that today I want to have my coffee in a yellow cup. But, as we've talked about, yellow is not just yellow and times change. Sometimes one colour is more popular than the other. I would like to hear how much John really thinks about creating long-lasting colours in relation to trends.
John Booth:I hope they would have longevity, but I guess it's. I wonder if you do it subconsciously. I can't say it was something, because when we were designing it it was colours that me and Ian just really loved and it was more about I love them now rather than it being trend-orientated or even thinking of that. But I guess sometimes you can almost look back to guess what would be. There is certain colours that would be more classical combinations, or looking at colours like Corbusier would use in the design of the interiors, or even there's a picture that I've got from the 1930s where the door was green and the depth of the door was like a really hot red and I have some.
John Booth:Potentially it's, but it's not like but then it's from the 30s and that looks so modern now. So maybe there is something that you I can't say. It was truly present when we were doing the colors, because we just chose the best ones that we wanted to use. But I guess, through further research into color, there's definitely more tried and tested combinations or shades which you know could have like historical resonance or that would moving forward, would be, would be nice, but it's I'd I wonder it's not like it's hard to set out a classic color range because I think it just has to be something that you really like.
John Booth:For us it's probably more about and my own personal work combinations. Especially if you're designing multiples, it's like okay, what looks good together. So, like we said, stacking the plates yeah or, like you know, it's about sort of also, the one thing that's kind of good but also heartbreaking with ceramics is that you can't get every shade that you want. I love hot pinks, but you know that you will not get a hot pink shade in a ceramic that you like no, I've tried a long time, a long time. So there's certain.
Sarah Gottlieb:Actually the palette is quite limited yeah, that that constraint can be quite nice because basically the chemistry of it yeah the alchemy, yeah, the literal?
John Booth:no, no, but you're right. But just it literally is. There's absolute constraints on what colors you can achieve, which is nice. But back to your point before even if I could get every color, there's probably only about eight colors that I use on rotation anyway.
Sarah Gottlieb:I love that. So John doesn't just choose between all the colours in the whole world, but what does he do if his clients interfere with his colour choice?
John Booth:Often, and what I quite like is when the client would point out I actually often ask for if just it was a fashion design project, I'd be like what colours do you want? And often they'll be like do what you want. But actually they'll come back with feedback oh, we don't like this colour or that colour. So I quite like it when the client actually gives me quite a strict colour scheme. Obviously, unless they said, oh, here's six shades of beige. I wouldn't do that. But I did a project for Sunspell, a British fashion company, and we came up with six colours that I really loved and it was a conversation. But some of them were based on their archive colours and then I introduced some of my own. But it worked super well, this six colour palette. But when I look at what we designed, it still felt really dynamic.
John Booth:It didn't feel limited but it looked really concise and it felt sort of historically respectful to the brand, so I really loved that and it's quite nice, I think.
Sarah Gottlieb:So that was actually more like.
John Booth:Then you're merging your own color references with the company's color references, which was such a good example of how that could work super well, and even they have a lot of jerseys, so that we did sweatshirts that were their classic gray mall, but then I was putting my colors on top of it and I just really loved how that looked.
John Booth:So that was really really nice. So actually I do like I like getting some direction on colour and I think people would probably think, oh, I wouldn't like that, but I actually really like it. But when it comes to if it's our own work, I guess if I'm working with Ian on super group stuff, that's a really nice conversation and he's very good at he would say he'd be quite clear and be like no, we shouldn't't use that. Or we have a really nice conversation around colour. But then when it's totally my own work, that's when you start getting stuff that's a lot more it feels very loose and I almost find it quite hard to self-set those parameters on a colour scheme. But I almost want to do that more. So I'm trying to do it, but it's hard.
Sarah Gottlieb:So you mean you're trying to limit your amount of colours?
John Booth:Yeah, but it doesn't always happen, but I wish it would.
Sarah Gottlieb:Really yeah, why.
John Booth:Just because I think it could look good. It could maybe because sometimes I worry about stuff looking too repetitive, and I think repetition in work is interesting. But I'm almost aware of you don't want to become too habitual with certain things that you use, so for me it could be habitual, I don't know. But I'm never going to say to myself right, you're not allowed to use this colour, but it's. It's a lot easier when some you've got an external voice doing that, isn't it? So it's quite.
John Booth:That's why I like external design projects, because then you're not in your mind all the time, yeah and you get, you can get something fresh out of it where you're like, okay, they've limited the colour and that's actually quite refreshing, so it can be nice. But actually, yeah, I don't mean that I'm still going to use lots of colour, but I just, I guess, looking back at other projects where we've limited the colour and it still felt very me but quite nice to have that limitation, but very hard to self-set that limitation.
Sarah Gottlieb:I always find it exciting to hear about how limitations can be inspiring, so now I want to hear about what else John is inspired. By.
John Booth:So I showed you previously, I've got a box in which I keep colour swatches. So I do I like, when I'm doing design work or drawing work, I paint sheets of paper with colour Mostly gouache paints or acrylic paints and what I really love doing is painting it one colour, let it dry, Then on the back of that, paint it a different colour, but combinations that I really like. So when I'm cutting them up I can sort of fold paper and stick it down. I'll have a choice. But I basically reference a lot of my previous drawings for combinations. Or if I'm doing a lot of collage, I'll keep scraps and keep these scraps as my own sort of personal ongoing colour reference.
John Booth:Because, over the years I've definitely developed a palette that I really like and I think it is quite. It's tighter than what I would care to imagine. It is tighter than what I think, but I'm happy with that.
John Booth:Because it comes back to continuity. I think I can have continuity in my work through repetition of certain colours and certain colour combinations. So I reference my own sort of stack of paper samples and scraps that I've kept, because then you can I actually I learnt that from somebody when I was an intern at John Galeano. He had in the design studio there's big jars of colours, so there'd be a blue jar and a yellow jar and within that there would be all shades of blue, but it could be a bit of blue ribbon, a bit of blue paper, a bit of blue fabric. Because you know, when you do that thing where you you look around a room, you're trying to describe a color and you're like, oh, it's that shade of red where it's like, uh, and then you're trying to find the red, yeah, whereas he would have a jar of the red, which I loved. So that really stuck with me.
John Booth:I don't have jars no but I do have my little tray of colors that I like it's almost like your your paint buckets basically yeah imaginative paint buckets yeah of like references from old projects.
John Booth:But it's almost as well not only just the color, because then I've got certain colors that I use, that I like in certain materials. So there'll be like an acrylic ink in that particular red that I like and there'll be an acrylic paint in that particular use that I like in certain materials. So there'll be like an acrylic ink in that particular red that I like and there'll be an acrylic paint in that particular blue that I like. So I have to make sure that I just keep the certain brands and certain, within those brands, certain shades that I use a lot within my work, for continuity but also because it's like the perfect blue for me or the perfect red, I could pinpoint it.
John Booth:So I like acrylic inks, I like acrylic paint and I like gouache, and that's what I use a lot of and that's what I'm usually just standing painting sheets of paper in these colours and then working from that.
Sarah Gottlieb:I quite like, like we looked at the box before, and I quite like that idea that you kind of paint it on one side of the paper and then flip it and paint it on the other side. I love that Also because I think with quite a few of the people that I've talked to that work intensely with colour. I think a lot of designers and artists have this thing where colours is also about the meeting, the one colour meeting another colour.
John Booth:Absolutely, that's fully, fully what I'm about, so it's combinations.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yeah.
John Booth:Because I never, unless it's Bronto love. I'm never working with singular colour.
Sarah Gottlieb:Well, I think in Bronto you are not, you're like. One object is singular, but I feel like it's meant to be mixed.
John Booth:That's so true, it's true. Whereas in my own work I love like red and turquoise together and the stripes are like you know, the stripes or like you know, the combinations are really important and it's kind of but important. I say that, but more for like the most important thing is like visual pleasure from it, or like combinations that I find pleasing. So that's what I mean by important. But yeah, it is. It's very much about the succession of colours and how they work together. So I do think there's certain ones that work better than others just based on aesthetics. But I know people have I guess everybody's got their own code of rules around that, and I guess I do have a real system, but it's not strict, but it's more like just combinations that look good yeah, but I think also what you said, like you know, you said um like combinations that kind of just evoke an emotion with it.
John Booth:Yeah, true it could even just be that, like, for instance, red and turquoise just look so good together, and I use that a lot within ceramics and on like drawings on paper yeah and it just it is an emotion, but for me it's almost just like that instant, like I love it. It's straight where I'm at.
Sarah Gottlieb:I love that, yeah, and do you think that's some sort of like? Does it feed back to some sort of memory or is it? Do you know, could you even know, or is it just that kind of an?
John Booth:but what's what I do like is that I still feel the same way that I did as a child, where you have a combination and you just know that it pleases you and you're like I love that. And I still have that as an adult. Maybe there is a longer story, but for me, even if it's just that instant reaction where I'm like that's great, that's it and that's what you sort of strive for it and that's what you sort of strive for, you couldn't ask for more than that, could you? If there's combinations or things like that that look that you really like, then you just want to keep using it and it's kind of it.
Sarah Gottlieb:It works I think that's a really nice place to start yeah, that's yeah. We've accidentally rounded that up yeah, I think so, thanks, well, thank you that was great thank you for the conversation, and then I'm going to look forward to the sound of yellow.
John Booth:I'm intrigued.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yeah.
John Booth:The sound of shiny yellow.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yeah, shiny yellow.
John Booth:Amazing.
Sarah Gottlieb:Thank you. I could easily have talked to John for hours, but now it's time to hear what our musician got out of shiny yellow. Hi Avi, I'm back. Yeah we are back. We are back. You have worked on interpreting the color shiny yellow.
Arbi Alexander:Yeah.
Sarah Gottlieb:I'm excited to hear your take on the color. Do you want to tell us about your creative process?
Arbi Alexander:The process was what did you do? Did I do I? I just tried to. I was also kind of lucky because the last couple of days before I worked on it those associations that we talked about before was kind of around in my everyday life, so I had that early light a couple of days in a row and we also had like a some pretty decent weather in the area that I stayed, so it was buzzing around me in some way, so it was shining some bright, shiny yellow yeah, in a way, but I just felt like I was just loading up a bunch of inspiration and then so I could execute in a way, if that makes sense.
Sarah Gottlieb:I like that.
Arbi Alexander:You sound like a CEO yeah, but in a way, that's at least for my creative workflow. It's important to execute when you feel that the inspiration is there now and I 100% use that mentality a lot of the time, and but I also feel that I have to put other elements into my everyday life for new creation to catch up into my system in a way.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yeah, so basically you're saying that you had to allow yourself some freedom in your creative spirit? Yeah, in a way.
Arbi Alexander:That doesn't mean that you don't sit there at 8.30 and start doing something, but maybe just this project. When you feel that, oh, there was something there, that was a sound or there was an association that makes me want to go into this project, then you jump on it. Yeah, a lot of the time it's just creating the right emotions and then, being cool with that, you make like small blemishes we are. This is not the part where I'm super concerned about if, oh, I played a sharp here and it should be a flat or what you know, it doesn't matter.
Sarah Gottlieb:I don't even know what shop and flat is.
Arbi Alexander:No, no, it's just like it doesn't even matter that I don't feel like I play the right notes at the moment. I'm just generating an emotion that I feel can connect with what I'm seeking.
Sarah Gottlieb:Interesting, yeah, and what kind? I'm just also interested, if you have like. Did you already have? Or during the inspiration process, do you have specific sounds that to you were like shiny, yellow, or notes or instruments or ways of producing?
Arbi Alexander:Yeah, so I 100% see the instruments and the gear as tools, instruments and the gear as tools, and how you use the tool will kind of get you where you want to go Again.
Sarah Gottlieb:so like it's like you need to have a hammer and a saw to build the house. Yeah, and how are you?
Arbi Alexander:hitting the hammer with the head or are you hitting the hammer with the handle? Because you can also hit the hammer with the handle and you get a different result. So you all it result. It's up to you and your experience to figure out with my tools how do I use them to get where I need to go.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yeah, Is it like? Am I building a work table? Is it fine cabinet making and I'm producing again. Do I have the right?
Arbi Alexander:tools for that. Maybe, if you want to do fine cabinet, maybe you need to go and get some new tools, and tools can also be your experiences and your knowledge. That's all my tools.
Sarah Gottlieb:I like it. It's interesting.
Arbi Alexander:Yeah, are we going to listen to it?
Sarah Gottlieb:You're very eager to listen to it. I want to talk some more about it Okay, sorry. No, but I kind of want to try and be a bit more like, before we listen to it. I want to hear if you had like, do you know what I mean? Like, almost like for me as well, like, if I want a specific feeling in a room, I'll go like there's some, there's ways of painting, or there's like.
Arbi Alexander:you know, we talked about this thing about either you have something on a material, you feel like you have something subconscious that you already know this is not going to work, or this is going to work.
Sarah Gottlieb:Let's just say I want to create a cozy atmosphere in a room. There'll be some colors that I'll go towards and then, of course, I'll have, as you talked about, the tools. I will maybe think about if it should be a shiny paint or if it should be like a stain, so I can see the material through, and stuff like that. But there's still some specific colors where, like, I don't think I would use.
Arbi Alexander:I don't know, or maybe not I know what you mean, that you you have an idea what wouldn't work, also like you have an idea what will work and intense red.
Sarah Gottlieb:I would be like lovely color, but maybe not in a room where I need to.
Arbi Alexander:But already there. You're already making the red specific because I'm sure that the right red in the right circumstance, with the right idea, can be super calm and relaxing. And relaxing, yeah, but it takes that, but that's where all the experience come in right, because now you know, okay, we need to make it red, because that's what's kind of like the guy they told me to. How do I make this red, fulfill the purpose of the room?
Sarah Gottlieb:yeah, how do I make this red relaxing? Yeah, got it. Okay, now I'm ready to hear it. Yeah, so, um, I think we should ask the listeners to put their headphones on, turn up the volume, get comfortable, close your eyes, because here comes the sound of shiny yellow, thank you. Thank you very much for listening, as always. I really, really appreciate it. If you like what you heard, it would mean a lot to me if you helped me spread the word. You could text a friend right now and say Listen, I have a podcast recommendation that I want you to listen, to have a listen and get back to me and tell me what you think of it. Whoa, that would absolutely make my day if you did that. And if you want to see more about the work of John Booth, check out my website, sarahgodlibdk, under the podcast section. This episode was sponsored by Montana Furniture.