The Sound of Colour
Join Colour Designer Sarah Gottlieb as she talks to cultural and creative leaders about the most influential colours in their lives and work. Through insightful conversations you hear about the meaning and psychology of colours through the guest's personal story about their own creative work.
In each episode, we ask guests to talk about their passion for colour and where it comes from. We review a significant piece of our guest’s work where colour has played an important role, and also where they find inspiration – ending each episode with the musical element "the sound of a colour”.
Be prepared for laughter, tears and everything in between.
The Sound of Colour
Clara von Zweigbergk - Breaking Free from Monochrome Design
Ever wondered how colour can influence your mood and creativity?
Join us as we embark on a vibrant journey with multidisciplinary designer Clara von Zweigbergk, whose passion for colour has shaped her career and outlook on life.
Clara von Zweigbergk runs her own design studio with a focus on handcraft, paper, form and colour. Clara’s creative process is often shaped and influenced by experimentation and play and her design is characterised by simplicity, balance and of course colour.
She has worked with clients such as IKEA, Louis Poulsen, HAY and Nike. And has won multiple international design awards such as the Bruno Mathsson Award and Wallpaper Design Award.
Clara grew up surrounded by a kaleidoscope of hues, a childhood memory of colours that distinctly influenced her perception of space and mood.
In this episode she shares her experiences of breaking through the monochrome trends of the 90s. Discover how she has witnessed the evolution of colour acceptance in design and how it has become a crucial part of contemporary creative practices.
Clara talks about how her travels inspire her endless collection of coloured papers, and she shares her innovative approach to design, emphasising the tactile selection of colours that resonate on a deeper emotional level.
Wrapping up this episode with the musical experiment “The Sound of a Colour”, this time composed by musician Roxy Jules that creates the sound of Blue.
It was a very personal conversation, and I felt inspired by Clara’s tactile approach to colours. I hope you will enjoy it too. Happy listening.
For more color inspiration follow @sarah__gottlieb and this episode's guest @claravonzweigbergk and the episode's musician @roxy.jules
This episode is sponsored by Montana Furniture.
SHOWNOTES
- Read more about the art direction Clara did for HAY here
- Want to buy your own Kaleido Tray? Find them here
- Check out Clara von Zweigbergk’s work at her website
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The Sound of Colour is produced by Sarah Gottlieb, with music by Matt Motte.
The host
Sarah Gottlieb is a Copenhagen-based designer and art director specialising in colour and spatial design. Known for transforming environments through innovative use of colour, she is dedicated to creating public spaces that inspire connection and a deeper appreciation for design.
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For images and information from each episode go to the Podcast website
Hi, my name is Sarah Gottlieb and you are listening to the Sound of Color. I'm a designer and I work with colors in spatial design, product design and branding. In this podcast, you will meet a series of influential guests in the field of design and architecture who will all share their personal stories and expert knowledge on and about colors. Together, we will delve into the magic of color and its significance in the world of design.
Clara von Zweigbergk:I'm not very used to talk about color at all, actually no, it's just in my head.
Sarah Gottlieb:The Sound of Color is brought to you in collaboration with Montana Furniture. I'm very excited about my podcast sponsor because Montana Furniture is a part of creating more playful spaces by bringing colors and high quality furniture into private homes, offices, universities, boardrooms, restaurants, lobbies and concert halls. So, as you can hear, they are just as big color nerds as me. Hi, clara. Hello, the guest in this episode is designer Clara von Zweigberg, and her design origins from her great interest in paper, handcraft, form and color For me they are feelings.
Clara von Zweigbergk:I think that they have a lot of power on you.
Sarah Gottlieb:Clara von Zweigberg runs her own multidisciplinary design studio. Besides a focus on handcraft, paper form and color, clara's creative process is often shaped and influenced by experimentation and play, and her design is characterized by simplicity, balance and color. She's well known for her close collaboration with Hay, where she has been forming the visual identity as well as a wide range of products. Besides Hay, she has designed for clients such as IKEA, louis Paulson and Nike. Her work has received international recognition, as she has won multiple design awards, such as the Bruno Madsen Award, rom Designer of the Year and Wallpaper Design Award, amongst many others.
Sarah Gottlieb:Clara and I caught up on one of her recent work trips to Copenhagen and in this episode we talk about the shifting perception of color in recent design history, how we're embracing more and more colors. We discuss the significance of monochromatic design in the very first Hayy catalogs that Clara did. And, last but not least, clara also shares her personal technique for creating impactful color combinations and talks about the importance of hands-on material interaction as we delve into her product design project. But I want to know where her interest and passion for colors originally comes from.
Clara von Zweigbergk:I have very early memories from thinking about, you know, colour combinations, how something felt, what pants to put with the special sweater and which one not. Not so much how they looked, it was always about the colour combinations. And then I would also have to thank my parents, I think, because we lived in a house in the countryside that had very many rooms and every room they painted in different colors. Amazing, yeah, this was in the 70s and it was, I mean, in bigger cities that was, you know, totally along with the time. But in the countryside there all my friends had just beige and brown and dark wood and no color like that. You know, maybe orange and brown, that's it. But in our house it was like one room was totally yellow.
Clara von Zweigbergk:There was friends of my parents who were artists that would paint. Come and paint some of them, and then my parents some others. But I really understood then, or I was reflecting on how it felt to go from one room to another, how it really affected the mood. You know that you would maybe go into a blue room and you would sit and read and be calm, and you would go into a blue room and you would sit and read and be calm and you would go into a pink room and that would feel different and so on did you really?
Sarah Gottlieb:do you really like? I think a lot of people talk about this sense of like, creating a space and making it colour, and like how it affects you, like mentally, and like your mental state of mind?
Clara von Zweigbergk:Yeah, but I think it definitely does. And then, of course, as a child, I wouldn't understand that.
Sarah Gottlieb:No, no, you wouldn't reflect on it in the same way.
Clara von Zweigbergk:No, but when I think back on being in those rooms as a kid, it's the colors of the rooms that I really think of.
ROXY JULES:Yeah.
Sarah Gottlieb:Actually. So, going from this like your kind of childhood home, how did you start working with colours professionally?
Clara von Zweigbergk:I always had a lot of colour in my clothing. Also, as a teenager I would sew a lot of clothes to sort of get what I wanted in terms of material and clothing.
Sarah Gottlieb:So you were already kind of creative and crafty.
Clara von Zweigbergk:Yes, I was also knitting sweaters in very bright colors and stuff like that, so I think it was never anything that started at a certain time. It was always very natural for me and I. It was actually when I started in design school that I noticed that a lot of people they didn't have that at all as something natural, and that was also in the 90s, where everything I mean to be cool you would sort of stick with black and white and gray. Otherwise you were a bit sort of childish, but I couldn't do it any other way, so I always worked with color and that was sort of. It's just been what I've done, but it's not always been easy.
Sarah Gottlieb:And when you say graphic design actually yeah, and when you say it's not always been easy, what do you mean?
Clara von Zweigbergk:it's not been easy to convince in those times. Now it is very easy because now it's so accepted and and appreciated. But in the 90s and 2000 it was yeah, it was still black and white silver. You know that was what you were supposed to use. So so I had to fight quite a lot to convince my first clients like, oh, come on, but we just do a little bit red, come on, come on, just come on, we do just one green, please. Okay, not this one, okay, but maybe this one, you know. So you're trying to push your clients.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yes, to be brave, yes yeah, yeah always and I think also, just like I want to just quickly touch on this in each episode I we've kind of hit the subject that, um, colors are not sophisticated, or you said you know being cool with black and white. It's a bit, you're a bit childish if you're like you said as well now that you feel like it's much more accepted now. Yeah, is colors cool now? Or it seems to be. Yes, yeah, it seems to be very much. And how? What do you think? Do you have any ideas on what has made this happen? How did this? How, how?
ROXY JULES:is that?
Sarah Gottlieb:No, but just your personal kind of interpretation of it.
Clara von Zweigbergk:Yeah, but it's trends, you know, I don't know how it happened, but I think it happened maybe 15 years ago, something like that. And now I'm talking specifically in. You know, both in graphic design and industrial design, that there has been eras, of course, where color has been used a lot in those fields as well, but there was a little, just when I started my career, that that was sort of a little dip in into this acceptance of yeah of color yeah, but it's also is there anything you saw like.
Sarah Gottlieb:When you say like, maybe in your opinion you kind of felt like it started 15 years ago, uh, is there stuff?
Clara von Zweigbergk:is there stuff you remember that you saw like from other designers or brands or fashion, where you think that was like something that people just kind of got obsessed by, or I don't know, but I felt like there was a breaking point when we started to use so much solid color in Haze catalogs, because the previous catalog that I got from them was also very minimalistic black and white and gray and it felt like it was about then maybe that it got more accepted.
Sarah Gottlieb:Branding is about communicating what the company wants to be to the people it would like to reach and creating a visual language that is unique to the company. When Clara did the new art direction of the images for the Hay catalog back in 2012, they were actually quite unique at the time. Back then, most product design catalogs were quite minimalistic and very black and white in their expression. A pure white background and great photography was a classic approach to photographing products. The new art direction that Clara did back then was turning it all upside down.
Clara von Zweigbergk:I was asked to do, then, both the art direction of the catalogs and the set design. And then we wanted all the rooms to be in one color and then only have hay stuff in it, so no other things at all. So it was that all the light should sort of go to the product itself. It should be like the product should really be where you looked and then the light should sort of go to the product itself it should be like.
Clara von Zweigbergk:The product should really be where you looked and then the color should sort of embrace the whole set. And it involved quite a lot of space because we built up these big rooms in a warehouse and we insisted on, you know, dressing the set the like kind of fake furniture that we did in printed paper, so everything should sort of have the same color. So. So it was an expensive and crazy proposition that you know you, you throw something out and you think, okay, they will take, you know, maybe a fifth of it, or just like for fun, you know this is what we would like to do, yeah. And then they just said, yes, let's do it. We do it like this. Wow, amazing. So that is. That is uh great with hay, that they they're very courageous when it comes to new ideas. I think to just trust their designers.
Sarah Gottlieb:So the catalog and the art direction of the images for the hay catalog was actually a quite bold and courageous move from clara's side and luckily she had a client that embraced that bold and colorful idea. It resulted in a series of captive images with an industrial look and set-like sensibility, mixed with big, flat surfaces of color, a style that was copied quite a lot in the following years. So with the knowledge of Clara's brave approach to colors, I'm quite excited to hear what color Clara will choose for my musical experiment the sound of a color. So, clara, what color should we hear the sound of?
Clara von Zweigbergk:We should hear the sound of a dark Mediterranean sea. I love that, not night dark. I love that not night dark. It's sort of this thing that can happen sometimes when the sea is flat and then it's a little. It's a quite medium dark blue with a little bit of two words turquoise, but not turquoise. How do you pronounce turquoise, turquoise?
Sarah Gottlieb:yeah, turquoise, turquoise, turquoise, turquoise. Yeah turquoise, turquoise. Everybody out there, send us your interpretation of turquoise.
Clara von Zweigbergk:It's such a boring thing to spell also, I always get in trouble.
Sarah Gottlieb:So I'm like, okay, well, kind of greenish blue, okay, but yes, you brought some pantomsantone.
Clara von Zweigbergk:yes, I brought two Pantones because I couldn't settle for one, because it's something in between of these it's a delicious color.
Sarah Gottlieb:I want to say and I like that I can see why you then brought maybe it's the shimmer in it that you brought the two different Pantone swatches. So why did you choose this color?
Clara von Zweigbergk:well, I was. I would say that it's very hard to to say a favorite color, so I couldn't do that, but I think blue in general is very interesting because there are so many first of all, I mean it's the biggest range, I think, of all the colors.
Clara von Zweigbergk:Uh-huh yeah, wow, and yeah, I don't know. When I was a kid, my mom called me Clara Blue. I think I always come back to blue as something that I think is yeah, sometimes it feels totally wrong, you know. And sometimes it feels totally wrong, you know, sometimes it feels so right and you know I can be totally into a strong, vivid. You know, sky blue or something for a while and then I think, oh god, no, can't, can't do that, and then I switch into something else. But but, it's like very, I think colors in my world has always gone into periods, so I can go very sort of okay, now I really want everything to be this apple green you know, and then I buy clothes in that and I like objects in that and stuff, and then that feels passé and then I go into something else.
Clara von Zweigbergk:But it's just something that happens in my head. It's never something I talk about or or so. So you know I'm not very used to talk about color at all.
Sarah Gottlieb:Actually, no, it's just in my head.
Clara von Zweigbergk:We're trying to put it out there now. Yes, but it's uh, it's funny now now, when I knew I would come here, that I had to reflect a little bit about, yeah, how the thoughts are going in my head, because I noticed that it takes a lot of my. You know, I really think about color a lot, yeah, but it's not. I don't put words on it because it's just it's almost like an intuitive or I'm drawn to some combinations in some period, and then I'm like oh, I'm so over that. And now?
Sarah Gottlieb:on to something else, but I think also it's interesting. You said that you have not a favorite color, but then you kind of feel like blue. Maybe it's a color that you kind of come back to again and again. Yeah, that's a funny, because I think I have that with green as well.
Clara von Zweigbergk:Yeah, but green. I'm very weak for green also.
Sarah Gottlieb:Green and blue.
Clara von Zweigbergk:It's a good color, and something in between of them.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yeah, but I think also it's interesting when you say that it's not something that you maybe talk about a lot, but it's something you think about a lot colors. Yeah, what do you think? Why do you think that it's such a big part of your you know, I'm assuming also like your work, like why is it such a big part of your? Like mental load?
Clara von Zweigbergk:No, my mental load. Oh God, Can we just pause these thoughts?
Sarah Gottlieb:No, but like why do you think that you know? What is it about colors that makes them such a big thing in your head.
Clara von Zweigbergk:I don't know, it's just always been and I guess, yeah, for me they are feelings.
ROXY JULES:They are.
Clara von Zweigbergk:I think that they have a lot of power on you.
Sarah Gottlieb:Colors are feelings and they have a great influence on us. I couldn't agree more with Clara, but now I'm looking forward to hear what today's musician can get out of the Mediterranean blue color. Hi, julie, hi. In this episode, I have invited the musician Julie Rune to join me in my sound experiment. Julie is a Danish singer and musician and is known under the pseudonym Roxy Jewels. Roxy Jewels revolves around distorted guitars and electronic beats. Her intriguing vocal and lyrics shows how beauty, yearning, noise, rock, singer, songwriting and raw power can interact in the best possible way. Since 2011, roxy Jules has released four full length albums and two EPs. The lead singles from both EPs went on rotation on Danish national radio, and Simone Marie Butler, the bassist from Primal Scream, became a huge fan and played them non-stop on her radio show Naked Lunch on Soho Radio. It has been so insightful to talk music with Roxie Jules and I'm very happy that I got her to join in on the experiment to create the sound of a color. Thank you very much for wanting to be part of this musical experiment, the sound of a color. I've been looking very much forward. That's good.
Sarah Gottlieb:Well, in this episode, my guest is the multidisciplinary designer Clara von Zweigberg and I would say her work is focused around handcraft and paper and, of course, color, and her creative process is actually very influenced by experimentation and play. But her design is still very um, it still has like kind of a simplicity about it and very kind of clean design. But I asked her to pick a color that she wanted to hear the sound of, and she picked blue. Yeah, but more specific, she said it was like kind of like a mediterranean dark sea blue color, yeah. So, okay, I'll just find she and brought this brush. You just find it. It here you go, there's the brush, yeah. So she brought this brush to kind of reference the color of the sea that she's talking about. Yeah, and what she says she's like it's not like a midnight sea, like dark sea, but more like when it's kind of a very still and calm and bleak, you know like the wind it gets kind of this kind of dark blue color that I found very interesting.
Sarah Gottlieb:So, julie, I just want to ask you, how would you interpret this color musically?
ROXY JULES:Oh, that's a very easy question yeah, exactly exactly.
ROXY JULES:The good thing is that I really love blue, and I mean blue is a little bit like a color that reminds me of eternity, I think in a way I was thinking. Actually, blue is one of the latest colors described in history.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yeah, I don't know if you've heard this like in Omer's, like Homer's book that they he describes the sea as like red wine, colored or something like that and and I think then they talked about historically that people were like, oh, but did colors, did the blue color didn't exist.
Sarah Gottlieb:Was there some atmospheric kind of thing going on? But maybe it's just a thing about words and like our language development and like, if you look at objects and nature, not so many things are blue, like, of course the sky is blue, but that is not a, you can't point at it and no, exactly it's also because blue means so much to me, because I I love the sea very much.
ROXY JULES:I grew up by the sea and I I live by the sea. Now I swim during the winter also, of course, also during the summer, when I travel, I mostly travel to the sea. So the sea is like one of the most maybe besides for music, like one of the most important things in my life and what you also just talked about with the sky and and the sea, and that it's blue. But it's not really blue. I, I have a person in my life that's very dear to me and his eyes are blue, and I read that blue eyes are actually not really blue. They just reflect the color in the same way as the sea and the sky. And now that we are talking, I maybe it would be funny if I just played like the first line from that song, because I'm actually singing about that also and also that like yeah, just to say that also I do use colors.
ROXY JULES:Normally when I write songs I use colors both in the lyrics, but I think also sometimes I think music in colors like you can make a song, and then you can actually be a little bit like oh, it's as if I need a little bit more red in the soundscape.
ROXY JULES:But anyway, back to that thing about the colors that are blue color cause. They reflect the light in the same way as the sea and the sky. Sometimes the edges of the universe appear to be incredibly close by 42 000 cigarettes, thousand secrets written on the wings of a butterfly, oh, wow and so on, but like it's just to say that, yeah, yeah, so when you work I think that's quite interesting.
Sarah Gottlieb:You know I've worked with this musical experiment with a few different musicians, would you say like a way, for you is also a lot to do with writing lyrics and singing. Is that a big part of your creative process of creating a piece of music.
ROXY JULES:Definitely, the lyrics are half of a song, to me, I think, but it's difficult to say. But it's also because the lyrics and the music are so combined, merged and entangled.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yeah, exactly. So if you had to kind of brainstorm with me on creating the music, how would you approach creating this blue musically?
ROXY JULES:I would like to find a way to describe that feeling of blue, and I think, also because blue is such a huge color to me, it's, it's it makes me, in a way, want to do things right in my life. I mean, when I look at blue, I want to do better, I want to correct the mistakes that I did, maybe in a way, and I would like the small piece of music to also have this feeling of longing to find back to the right place to be, or forward to the right place to be in life, or something like that. And I would like also to think in movements. How does blue move?
ROXY JULES:how does the sea move? Maybe something about the movements of blue. Maybe that can go into the song as well. I think that sounds.
Sarah Gottlieb:I think, I think also that was really interesting. Compared to that, a lot of people maybe kind of you know blue like blues and like blue is kind of in music sometimes often described as a, maybe like a you said longing as well, but a sad feeling. But I quite like the idea of doing good and like yeah making up for something and like being better there's something cleansing about watching blue.
ROXY JULES:I think. I think maybe that's what I mean that if you look at blue, I feel like I I feel like taking away all the mistakes I did in my life and all all the regrets and just it's a. If you really dive into the blue, I think there's a like a chance to start over again and do better with everything you learned or something, I think the blue is such a big yeah thing you know, I think I'm now.
Sarah Gottlieb:I think this sounds really good and I'm like really looking forward to coming back and talking to you again and hear your version of this Mediterranean dark sea blue, while our musician deep dive into creating the music for the Mediterranean blue color. I will get back to Clara von Zweigberg to hear about one of her first product design projects. We're going to talk about her Kaleido tray collection for hay. It is something that is immediately very far from the work as a graphic designer, so how did Clara actually start this project?
Clara von Zweigbergk:I worked at purely Sony studio in Milan as a graphic designer and that was fantastic years. And then I moved to Stockholm and started my studio and then I felt like, ok, now I want to do more 3D, because I really missed working with my hands and I wanted to do what I actually got into this profession for in the beginning, because I wanted to work with my hands and it was more like that then. But then I felt like graphic design is now very much just sitting with the computer. So that's where I decided that now I have my chance to do something of that. And then I started to fold geometric shapes in. I I mean polyhedra, it's geometric shapes, basically 3D, yeah. And I got really into that. And that turned into another industrial project that was called Temis Mobile.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yeah, I remember those yeah.
Clara von Zweigbergk:Yeah.
Sarah Gottlieb:It's like kind of like folded balls, folded balls that is it.
Clara von Zweigbergk:Yes, sorry. So these folded balls, they were five of the classic shapes. They were put together in a hanging mobile and they had all facets were different colors. Yeah, so this was a real color bomb, with neons and silver and muted colors and strong colors mixed, and this got produced by our technica in los angeles and it actually was very successful. So that was super fun to start like that to have a. You know, it got a lot of press and international sales. So so then I got, you know, a good confidence for, okay, people want color. Yeah, great, you know, and they, yeah. So so then from there I had some pieces of paper from working on this series where I just folded up the flaps on one in the opposite way and it sort of turned out to be but hey, this could be a tray actually. And then from there it was. Yeah, I quite quickly figured out that it could be a modular system of these geometric shapes.
Sarah Gottlieb:The Kaleido Tray Collection is a series of steel geometrically shaped trays in a series of shapes and shades. They can be used individually as bursts of unexpected color, or they can be stored inside each other to create functional and imaginative constellations. In my opinion, clara's intuitive sense of color combination really truly manifests itself in these trays. There's a mix of both vivid, strong colors and very calm and muted colors.
Clara von Zweigbergk:That is also the strength of the project, that you can also get calm colors you can get. You know, in the first color range there was also browns and grays and calm colors, so that you did not have to go with the total neon orange if you didn't want to. And that is also important for me that it doesn't become you know just one color scale, because I think that that's where it gets interesting, that you have something very strong, vivid, combined with something really calm and muted, because that's where it starts to itch a little bit.
Sarah Gottlieb:And when you say itch a little bit, can you describe that to the listeners and when?
Clara von Zweigbergk:you say itch a little bit. Can you describe that to the listeners? Yeah, where you start to think about the color combination. If you have a very standard one, you say like everything is muted, let's say beige, brown, ochre, something like that, then that can also be very beautiful, beautiful, but it does not vibrate in the sense that I like it to do. That. I think that it's first one, two colors that you don't necessarily think would work together. That starts to sometimes you feel almost a little bit uncomfortable. It's the same when I do patterns. I sort of I'm drawn to symmetry and the simplest way, but I always want to add something that's just a little bit discomforting, a little bit of annoyment. Yes, exactly A little bit of optic disturbance. Yes, exactly a little bit of optic disturbance.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yeah like a mosquito bite. That just, oh, yes, a little bit, so it doesn't get too flat it is quite interesting to hear how Clara works when creating color schemes, that she needs to throw something a bit itchy into the scheme in order to create this disorder in an otherwise harmonious color scale. I think that is what makes her work with color not appear flat and bland. I would like to hear if Clara has other rules for creating color schemes.
Clara von Zweigbergk:It is actually not very much that I sit and think, huh, what color should it be? It's just a feeling. It's more like oh yes, of course it needs to be something reddish, but it cannot be too strong, it has to go more to orange, it has to be a bit calmer, you know. And then I try to find that color that I have in my head. Or another way that it can be is that I go through all my colored papers and I sit and I put them together and then I feel that, okay, here something happens and here something really doesn't happen.
Clara von Zweigbergk:And one way that I find extremely difficult is to choose colors on the screen. Yeah, difficult, yeah, is to choose colors on the screen. Yeah, so very often to to speed the process up, I think that I can sit next to my lovely assistant, tomah, and I can tell him oh, can you put that in, okay? And then I, of course, I always take my hand from his mouse and I do it myself. I try to pick the colors then in the computer so that the object gets colored in different ways, and it goes too quick. I don't have the time to feel anything then. Ah, yeah, it goes too quick, because then I'm very fast on saying, no, no, that's ugly, that's bad, that's ugly, that's bad. And then I sort of fast on saying, no, no, that's ugly, that's bad, that's ugly, that's bad. And then I sort of go through all the colors, which are quite a few.
Sarah Gottlieb:I think I heard somewhere that, yeah, I heard someone say that we can see, the human eye can see somewhere. I don't know how you, how some scientists found this number, but yeah, that the human eye can see 11 million different.
Clara von Zweigbergk:Yeah, you see yeah.
Sarah Gottlieb:It doesn't surprise me.
Clara von Zweigbergk:So that's a long workday to go through the 11 million huge yeah and especially in this very imprecise computer programs that you just click on a wheel and then it turns out to something you did not want.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yeah, and then you have to try and pull it one or the other direction, make more of it, and then it looks no, that was not done.
Clara von Zweigbergk:No, so sometimes it's very comforting for me to go back to my piles of papers that I then buy on trips and stuff. I always come with a pile of paper, is that?
Sarah Gottlieb:what you bring home from every trip.
Clara von Zweigbergk:Yes, that's amazing yeah, I love that.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yeah, I had a colleague who called me paperholic because I couldn't go out for lunch without coming back with a stack of color papers but I think also like that, I think that was quite interesting talking, like you know, saying the last for you saying the last important things about putting colors together is that it goes too fast on the computer and that you need to go back to the physicality of the paper.
Clara von Zweigbergk:Yeah, and I need to think. You know like to feel it.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yes, I think that's a very important message to say that you actually need to give yourself time to feel that, even though we have immediate emotional response to a lot of things, and especially color, you still need to give yourself time to resonate about that feeling and if it's the right feeling or not. Yes, I think that's a very good piece of color selection advice. Yeah, or any advice in general, maybe also.
Clara von Zweigbergk:Yeah yes, no. And then it is also very useful when you do a selection of colors that that should work together. So if you have, let's say, a project like Kaleido that has changed color range many times, but the the goal is always that these nine colors should all fit together just as a pair or as a trio, or as five, or you know yeah, then you can combine them across the nine colors.
Clara von Zweigbergk:Yes, and that becomes quite complex. If you don't have you know, then for me it's not enough to sit with a little pantone chip, then I want to have a bigger piece to see how they actually work together. That is also then I, when I use my colored papers and I put them together and then I can, of course, if that color of that paper is not exactly, then I can choose the pantone. That is a little bit more what I see, but still the sketch would be to use physical papers.
Sarah Gottlieb:Mmm. Colored pieces of paper. That is something that I love as well. The physicality and the tactileness of colored paper is a great tool to have in your studio. It's very interesting to hear that this is an essential part of the way that Clara works when choosing colors, but I wonder how she works otherwise. Is her creative process different when she works on self-initiated projects versus client briefs?
Clara von Zweigbergk:I think they're not super different, because if someone asks me to do it, I figure out that they would like me to propose what I like. But there are some things, of course, that I would add. Some things of course that I would, you know, add maybe more safe colors to a client's request also like and when I say safe, I mean commercially safe yes, you mean something you know would be a good seller. I know that a light grey will always sell the best. I love that a light grey will always sell the best.
Sarah Gottlieb:I love that Light gray will always sell, but maybe it's because nobody gets offended.
Clara von Zweigbergk:Yes, yeah, and light gray can be beautiful too. Yes, so I don't have a problem with it. But I just wouldn't want everything to be light gray.
Sarah Gottlieb:No. So a tip is that when you do a commercial, there's always a light gray that should not have any green or any red or any.
Sarah Gottlieb:It should just be as clean as possible but that's also actually quite interesting when you talk about, because I think a lot of people like when you talk about colors, of course it's um, um, even in the language of talking about color, when I say color, I think a lot of people think red, green, blue, yellow, you know, like bright colors, but obviously, as we just talked about, there's 11 million, yeah, yeah, colors.
Sarah Gottlieb:With that, we can see yes, and I think it's also quite interesting with gray, because in my studio I actually I have a wall with all my color samples on as well, and I didn't want it to be white, because when it's white all the colors stand out too much, you know, and so I wanted to just have a little break of gray, uh-huh, and it was. It took me many sample pots to kind of find that kind of light gray that was not, and also because then I ended up being with two light grays, one which was more cool and one which was a bit more warm, yeah, and I was really like, oh, which way should I go?
Clara von Zweigbergk:No, but gray is. I could talk about gray for also an hour. I could talk about any color for an hour. I could talk about any colour for an hour.
Sarah Gottlieb:I think we should have a.
Clara von Zweigbergk:I notice now you know when you open this box of speaking about colours yeah, but no, but grey is very interesting and it's shit difficult to choose, and why is it shit difficult to choose?
Clara von Zweigbergk:No, because you think that, oh, you know, it should just be neutral, but it will never be. You know, if you have just a slight touch of yellow, it will be something totally different. And then you'll go. Then you'll say, also, if you do it in a room, which I did on all the door frames and the window frames in our flat, yeah, then I was thinking of all colors basically, and I sketch, painted them in so many colors. But then I was like, no, but there will be enough color in these rooms, so there should be gray.
Clara von Zweigbergk:And then it was also like, no, but there won't, nothing else will work but the most neutral grey. And yet that one that doesn't have anything but black in it is turning almost violet in one type of sunlight, and then it is very warm in and out. I mean it's, it just lives its own life, and that's what walls do with light and everything. I mean also also what's interesting, when you choose colors for round objects like lights and, yeah, well, basically anything that is rounded, it's a totally different thing than picking something that is a flat surface, yeah, or like a flat on the side kind of thing, yeah, so you kind of have to try it.
Clara von Zweigbergk:Yeah, I mean with round surfaces it's.
Sarah Gottlieb:It's not what you expect it is just fascinating that you can have a very specific color, but as soon as you apply this color to an object and the light hits it from different angles, it becomes completely different. It's very inspiring to hear Clara talk about this, and of course, I want to hear more about where she finds her own inspiration, so that's why I asked her to bring a little thing that tells us about what she is inspired by.
Clara von Zweigbergk:It's just a paintbrush, but I bought it only for the looks of it, like I do often with objects, so you didn't need a paintbrush like this, but you needed it as an object. I needed it as an object and I have it to be happy with and it has this blue that I am thinking of when I think about the Mediterranean Sea.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yeah, so the handle is blue.
Clara von Zweigbergk:And it's combined with, so the blue is actually a little bit metallic, so it's like glittering. And then you have aluminium, which is then let's call it silver, and then the brush is ochre orange, which picks up very nicely the green tones of the blue, and then you have the silver that neutralizes them.
Sarah Gottlieb:In between, that's a little boundary between them.
Clara von Zweigbergk:Yes, and what is it about an object like this that inspires you with colors? Yeah, it's the combinations of color and material. Here you have the metallic and then you have the intensity of a strong color and here you have a more muted-reflective surface. I guess it's. I just brought it from my studio a little bit rushed yesterday, like I take this no but, and I the more I think about it. This is very representative, so it's in what way is it I?
Clara von Zweigbergk:don't think I would have gained much thinking too much longer on it, because it's just. It's as simple as that. It's just colors that meet each other where something happens.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yeah, so it's about this kind of emotional meeting actually between the colors that inspire you yes yes and do you think? Is that like the brush? Is that an object like as a color inspiration? Is that an object that you have out or like? Is it? How do you use it in your work? When or like not, maybe not particularly this one, or?
Clara von Zweigbergk:like this is just one of many objects that I just possess in in in the way of that. You know, I like how they look. This one, I think, I have in my pencil cup in the studio and it's not something I think about too much. But you know, I would really like to have one of these big glass cabinets and I would like to place just nice objects there with nice color combinations. But I haven't gotten around to it yet.
Clara von Zweigbergk:But that is a dream, you know, I understand that dream, so that you see them, because I do have a lot of stuff that I buy like this and then I put them in drawers. Like Clara's curiosity cabinet kind of thing, yes, I think it's time for that now.
Sarah Gottlieb:You just moved studio, I heard, so maybe that's the yeah, we'll see.
Clara von Zweigbergk:Yeah, but you know, I think inspiration is everywhere really, mm-hmm. It can be just a little packaging on a box for tobacco, or it could be a house, a house that has a cool color meeting or a nice texture, or it's like inspiration is sort of what visual impressions you collect over a very long time and you just put them in some kind of place in your head and they pop up or they merge into something that comes out in your work. I guess I don't seek it as per se. I don't go very much to look at what other people are working on, or I don't seek it like that. I'm more like I I look around when I move around.
Sarah Gottlieb:It's more like you bump into it.
Clara von Zweigbergk:Yeah, and I think it's about being observant where you are. It could be anything really. It could even just be a conversation, or not just. This is a very giving conversation. Oh, thank you.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yes.
Clara von Zweigbergk:Yeah, but I mean, it's not like you know. You have to sit and flip through magazines or sit on instagram all the time and and I don't do that so much um, so actually it's more about being reflected in as, like you know, and be a bit more present, maybe in where you are and who you are with?
Clara von Zweigbergk:Yeah, I think so, and see what you find interesting, like if you look around like okay, now I see this beautiful building outside of your window here, and I noticed the pattern of the tiles and the color combination you know stuff like that.
Sarah Gottlieb:And those things. Yeah, and I think also maybe to me when you say that it resonates with me as well in the way that it's like, maybe inspiration doesn't always give meaning at like firsthand.
Clara von Zweigbergk:No no. It's something that you have to put in the pot yeah, and I think also, a lot of of it comes when you do start to work on something and you because then you face new challenges for every task that you take on, and then you work on it for a few days and then you take a walk or you go on a trip or whatever, and then new things will pop into your head and be transformed into something that eventually comes out.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yeah, in your work, yeah, I quite like that Going on trips. But I think, I like that idea that that's your inspiration, advice, that it's being open to putting things into your head and then trusting the process of it coming out when you are approached with a new problem you have to solve.
Clara von Zweigbergk:Yeah, and I think also for me. I work a lot. I mean I work with my hands as much as I can. Analog. I mean that process is very inspiring in itself for me because, for example, if I fold some shape or something, then there can be a mistake that takes me to the next, and then there is another. Oh shit, I don't, didn't have that material. So I'll try this instead just for now, or to always just be open to to see what occurs. More than having a plan or having a clear goal, I like to more like watch what my hands do. That sounds maybe strange, but it's more that I don't usually think so much on where I want it to go. It's more like, okay, what happened now? Oh, that looked like shit, I'm going gonna throw that away, but then hang on a minute, what if I do this and you just watch what happens?
Sarah Gottlieb:I think that's a nice place to stop. Yeah, you just watch what happens. I like that. You watch your hands. Yeah, I'm just looking what my hands are are doing. What the fuck are you doing? Stop, ok. But, clara, I want to thank you so much for taking your time to come here and talk about colors within your work and how you work with them. It was exciting to hear about, I think, and now we're going to hear, what the musician will come up with for the color. Should we call it Mediterranean turquoise? Yes, with that pronunciation of turquoise, mediterranean turquoise is coming up okay, but it.
Clara von Zweigbergk:But it is not really turquoise, it is more blue.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yeah, it is Okay. Two words turquoise, two words blue turquoise, thank you, thank you. It's time to hear what our musician Juliaio rona has gotten out of the light blue turquoise color. Hi, julie, hi, I'm quite excited to hear how it went and, like what you came up with. Do you want to tell us a little bit about the process of creating the music for blue?
ROXY JULES:I started just closing my eyes, feeling the color of blue, and I I kept going back and back to the, to the sea, and I I thought that was where I should start then, since the sea kept on popping up in my mind and also Clara even also talked about the sea, so I thought that was a good way to start. So I I started by writing something on guitar that I actually feel like kind of captured the movement of the waves and the sea.
Sarah Gottlieb:So we talked about movements and I I tried to, yeah, to find the movements first, so I wrote this like little guitar thing that I think reminds me a little bit of the waves interesting one thing I remember that you talked about when we met last time was, um, this kind of you felt like blue also was about a kind of a cleansing feeling and also a feeling of wanting to do good yeah.
ROXY JULES:So I tried to write something beautiful, actually like the music that I do. I I often put in a lot of like noisy stuff and there's also a little bit of noise in this piece of music, but I tried to make the noise warmer and more gentle in a way than I I normally do, because I I wanted to yeah, because we talked about it. I wanted to take in that warm and forgiving feeling of blue and the longing, and it's also about the sea, and the sea is sometimes it's calm, but sometimes it's also very, very noisy, and I think about the cleanser.
Sarah Gottlieb:And dangerous? Yeah, exactly, it can be quite dangerous Exactly exactly, exactly.
ROXY JULES:It can be quite dangerous. Exactly exactly yeah.
ROXY JULES:So it represents so many different aspects of life and I think that also I really like life when it's nice and calm, but I also I really also like life when it's fast and crazy. I think I'm also kind of a restless person. So I want I guess I want both contrasts to be in all of my songs, because it's always, it's always there inside of me, both the craziness and the calmness.
Sarah Gottlieb:Yeah, I think also another thing it was really nice last time you played that piece of that song for me, thank you. That was a really nice last time you played that piece of that song for me, thank you. That was a really nice experience to get like a little solo show and and we talked about, uh, the meaning of like lyrics, like when you create music. So I'm just because actually none of the positions that's been on the show has ever put lyrics in the piece of music that they have created. So I'm wondering have you put lyrics? Yeah, you have.
ROXY JULES:Yeah, I actually have Interesting and I actually wrote them in Danish because at the moment I'm writing in Danish. Normally I've always been writing in English, but this piece of music I wrote it in Danish and I have a person very dear to me in my life and he always he likes to walk at the beach and find sea urchins. Yeah, sea urchins.
Sarah Gottlieb:Sea urchins.
ROXY JULES:Yeah, it makes him very calm to just go there and I was actually Like the fossils, yeah, the fossils, or yeah, the fossils, exactly, exactly. And we've been talking a lot about the sea and how it calms us down and actually also the color blue and stuff like that, and so I there's a little part of the lyrics that's about him also walking at the beach looking for sea urchins.
Sarah Gottlieb:I think that sounds very good and well, I think actually maybe we should just ask the listeners to put their headphones on, or and turn up the volume and get comfortable and close your eyes out there, because here comes the sound of Mediterranean dark sea blue.
ROXY JULES:I can hear your thoughts hiding in the wind, maybe because there's suddenly a hole Into infinity Under my lower legs, formed like the fossils you always look for Between the sea's abandoned rocks. Christine, have I ever been told that I'm frankly happy that you're here, especially because we're one, but we have to be together.
Sarah Gottlieb:Take a bear a man's world. Take a bear a man's world. Thank you very much for listening. As always, I really, really appreciate it, and if you like what you heard, please share it with someone that you think will like it too. It always means a lot to me if you help me spread the word of the show, and if you want to see more about the work of Clara von Zweigberg, check out my website, sarahgodliebdk, under the podcast section. No-transcript.
